Hello ladies and gents. I’m the co-creator of ye olde indie game “Aquaria” and I wanted to take this opportunity to update you on the progress of my follow-up to that game: “Marian and the Fantastic World of Dreams”.
While I’ve been involved in some neat projects, like the Winnitron 1000, I haven’t released a big, commercial game since “Aquaria“. For the last two years I’ve been working on “Marian”. Since I started the project, I haven’t taken a substantial break from it. I work on it almost every single day, in one way or another. It’s been a huge part of my life.
If you’ve been following the blog, you’ll have noticed that for a while we were posting consistently about progress “Marian” – including 3D models, animation reference, concept art and music. Then we stopped for a time. If you’ve been listening to the IA podcasts and following the blog closely, you may already have an idea what’s going on.
Whether you’ve been following this project for a while or not, I feel that this is the right time to pull back the veil a little bit – for a peak of what was going on and what may happen in the near future. We’ve put together a collection of screenshots that nobody outside the team has seen yet. But first, here’s some music from the game to get you in the mood…
The Dream
Marian looks up, as something enters her room…
My brother was the one to first come up with the idea of a game about a puppet. I was really attracted to the thematic potential of a marionette main character. I was also in an emotionally rough time and the ideas of “being controlled” and “controlling others” really spoke to me. ”Aquaria” also dealt with themes that I found to be emotionally important to the way I experience life. I find that the emotional connection is what really pulls me into a new game concept. The game play, style, and world all stem from these initial inspirations.
I knew that if we were going to take the game in that direction, it would become somewhat similar to “Aquaria” – very involved, hard to develop, emotionally and physically draining. Development proved to be even rougher than I anticipated, with lots of unexpected technical hurdles and an even larger doses of the usual fear and self-loathing.
Marian’s string was a very complex physics object, and she would use it to explore a 2.5D world.
Into the Third Dimension
When we released the first 3D teaser for “Marian”, there was some excitement and speculation about it being 3D. There was also some confusion from “Aquaria” fans about why the new game, unlike its predecessor, was not in 2D.
Long after the release “Aquaria”, I started getting into the Unity game engine, which we used to create “Paper Moon”. I started to fall for the engine, because it allowed me to prototype new ideas very quickly and in visual way. It was also nice to not have to worry about any nit-picky technical details. I figured that Unity was a big step forward in terms of how fast we could develop new content. To me this seemed like a signal that the time was ripe for 3D indie games (and to some degree, that’s true – lots of new indie 3D projects are popping up using Unity and they look awesome).
The cylinder level, from a design by Kyle Pulver.
I didn’t want to do 3D just for the sake of doing 3D. Marian was always intended to use 2D game play, but since we were using a 3D game engine, we realized we could do a lot of cool things with that 2D game play, like wrap it around a 3D object or lock it to a path through 3D space. We could also use really interesting camera angles and moves to add a lot of depth to the atmosphere.
However, one of the other goals of the project was to make use of Unity’s physics engine. I really wanted Marian’s movement to be managed by PhysX, so that we could have the environments react to her in really dynamic ways. The combination of these two things, “2D game play in 3D space” and “physics-based game play” proved to be a technical nightmare. Although we did get most of what we wanted working with the use of a lot of creepy hacks, the levels that we had in 3D space , while they had cool design elements, never really controlled quite right.
Interior of the cylinder level.
Details, Details, Details
Creating a world in 3D is a significant challenge, not only because there is an entire additional dimension that you have to define in detail, but realism quickly starts to intrude in tedious ways. Since a high res 3D world allows for more detail, the player expects to see it. If any of those details are off, the scene looks wrong. The level of realism has to be maintained throughout the entire project, or the immersion will be ruined.
When “Gubbins” attack.
Creating the new Marian character model took ages. Thanks to a lot of hard work by Adam Mechtley, we finally got to a model that we were pretty happy with. But it still wasn’t perfect. She’d look better from some angles more than others, and her hair never really felt real. Environment artist Justin Messner did a great job improving our asset workflow and figuring out how to build reusable 3D models that we could snap together to create areas that looked organic. But we still had a long, long way to go before we could call our look “polished”. Given the amount of time it took to refine the art to the level required. I started to worry that even if we could hit that level, the game would take so long to develop that our models would look really dated by the time it was released.
At this point we had a team of about eight people who were all involved to varying degrees. Although everyone was being very kind by working for relatively low rates and trying to help out where they could, a team this large meant that I had to spend a significant portion of my time managing the team. While this was necessary, I found it really tedious. I really prefer to work with other people as a collaborator, not as a “boss” or a “manager”. Some team members would take on more responsibility and discuss how their work fit into the overall game, while others were only really interested in working off a list of assets. It’s very important to me to know that everyone working on a project understands the vision, and can bring part of themselves to the table to compliment and improve the end result. For a game that was to involve emotional themes, it felt wrong to have some parts of the team working in a very detached way. Overall, I feel like I was never really comfortable in the role of micromanaging people and that I never found quite the right way to direct a team of that size.
Gears, gears, gears.
I was also unhappy with the design of the game, in the sense that it never really hit the right thematic tone that I was looking for. We were trying to do something really new and interesting with the string mechanics, and while we did have some cool physics-based mechanics working, it wasn’t easy enough for players to pick up and play. I could probably write an entire book on the piles of different control schemes we tried out with the string mechanics. While prototyping and testing completely different control schemes was a great learning experience, it was a very complicated problem that never really had a perfect solution.
What’s the Soul?
Much like “Aquaria’s” development, which started out as an action-RPG with branching plot, I realized that we had two major alternatives for where to take “Marian”. On the one hand, we could continue in the direction it was going; a 3D, heavily physics-based game. On the other, we could abort the 3D version, and restart from scratch in 2D with a new outlook on game play.
3D Marian looks on…
As you can imagine, the decision was gut-wrenching and hard to make. Once you’ve made a significant time investment in a project (in this case, more than a year), it becomes difficult to let it go, even if you can see the difficultly in continuing.
One of the problems with continuing down the 3D path was funding. I had funded the 3D prototype with a combination of my own money with matching funds from the government of Manitoba. The Manitoba funding went kaput soon after, so we wouldn’t have been able to tap into that for full production. I didn’t have the funds to make a 3D project of that scale happen. For a time, we looked into publishers. While publishers would be a way to get a sizable production budget, they really didn’t understand what the game was about. I feel that if I’d gone with any of the publisher options we were looking at, the final game would have ended up being a neutered, less dark and less compelling version of what I really wanted to make.
If I wasn’t going to go with a publisher and instead fund a 3D project myself, I would have had to greatly limit the scope of the game: we wouldn’t have been able to create all the diverse environments that we planned for and would instead have had to focus the game on a few areas… and that was it. I believed that cutting those areas out of the game would destroy a big part of what could make its themes work.
I think Derek really liked this area, even though it was a just quick, crappy mock-up.
I consulted with some other indie developers, including Spelunky’s Derek Yu and Super Meat Boy’s Edmund McMillen. Most developers I talked to agreed that 2D would suit the game well, but Derek and Edmund were more attached to the 3D version. I think they saw a lot of potential for a game that distinguished itself from other indie titles by using 3D models and environments.
I disagreed with them. I didn’t think that any one element would be the key to making the game work. To me, the success of “Marian” would be measured by how well the game came together as a whole.
My outlook is that when someone sits down to play the game, the music, game play, level design and art should all work together to suck you into a totally unique world for a little while. That feeling wasn’t coming through for me as strongly as I would have liked in the 3D prototype. I think Derek and Edmund were responding to what was there, not what could be.
The Living Storybook
While we were busy trying to build Marian in 3D, we were still developing loads of 2D concept art for all the different environments in the game. What I started to realize over time, was that the 2D art was way more successful at conveying the feel of the game than our 3D attempts.
The Marian book, one of my favorite models from the 3D prototype.
In the 3D prototype, we had built a really nice book model for the menu system of the game. It would pop out of Marian’s pocket, flip around, open up and fly towards the screen. Its pages would show you the map, details about items, etc. Around this time, we had also received a nice compliment from Ron Carmel (World of Goo) who compared the 2D concept art to that of a storybook.
These two ideas eventually fed into my feelings on restarting the game from scratch – with a new focus.
Throw it Out, Start Again
A few months ago, I decided to archive the 3D Marian prototype. I would rewrite the entire game from scratch, switching programming languages completely from UnityScript to C#. This was a good idea for a few reasons, but mainly it would force me to rethink how all the pieces of the game fit together. It would also allow me to focus on building the game from a blank slate, rather than trying to adapt existing systems that had become overly complex.
We also let go of the team at this point, eventually whittling it down to only those who were fully on board and willing to invest lots and lots of time in making “Marian” a detailed and unique world. We ended up with a team of two, myself and illustrator Ashley Dumonchelle.
I started by rebuilding the game play in a similar fashion to the original prototype. After a while, I realized that I still wasn’t feeling it. The string was still too complicated to control and didn’t immediately lead to enough interesting game play possibilities. I realized I could both radically simplify the way the string worked, while also removing most of the PhysX-based code that made it a pain to implement and refine. How did we do that exactly? You’ll find out in the next few months… 
The new 2D version, art by Ashley Dumonchelle
In addition to being able to fund it myself, free from the stress and limitations of publishers, this new version of the game would be able to run on many different platforms, would be something that non-gamers could pick up and play, thanks to the simplified control scheme, and would make use of a unique art style that was very effective at conveying the mood and themes of the game.
And that’s what Ashley and I have been working on for the last few months. I wanted to make sure this was the right path before going into detail about it. Now that we’ve seen that this path works, and we have a good stretch of the game assembled and already being play-tested with positive results, I feel a lot more at peace with myself and this game than I ever did when working on the 3D version.
Marian’s new life as a 2D sprite
I think the goal of making your own “anything”, whether it’s a game, music, art, a book, etc is to add something special to the world. It should be unique in ways that are important to you. Whether that’s a game that happens to be heavier on story or one that is more mechanics-driven or one that is kinda nuts – I believe you should be exploring your own style.
Although I certainly felt depressed while having to wrestle with difficult decisions back when I was stuck in the middle of them, I can see now that those experiences and many of the ideas that went into the old prototype will inform and improve everything in our new version of the game. The work wasn’t lost, it is being converted and translated into a new form.
That gives me hope that one day we’ll be able to release this game and you’ll be able to enjoy it.
And then we’ll feel like all this hard work, including the wrong turns and dead ends, has truly been worth it.
What’s Next?
Discussion and updates about Marian continue on our newly minted forum. Stop by Ashley’s Art Corner for regular updates on the art in “Marian”. If you have any questions about development or the game in general, the forum is the place to go.
Check out Ashley’s workspace on the forums.
You can also keep in touch by following the Facebook page for the game, below. We really appreciate you being along for the ride.
David K wrote a Comment on February 14, 2011 at 8:53 am
Thanks for giving us a glimpse into the development process. I find it particularly fascinating; games are as much an artistic endeavor as a technical one.
I’m looking forward to playing through your vision when this game is released.
Tweets that mention Infinite Ammo » Blog Archive » Marian: From 3D to 2D -- Topsy.com wrote a Pingback on February 14, 2011 at 9:11 am
[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Brandon Boyer, Kert Gartner, Infinite Ammo, Alexander Zacherl, Lisanne Pajot and others. Lisanne Pajot said: RT @infinite_ammo: The longest Marian Mondays post yet: http://bit.ly/hCyqmX #MarianGame [...]
Tyrone wrote a Comment on February 14, 2011 at 9:13 am
I cannot fathom the pain of letting go and “killing your darlings” with that level of magnitude. I have nothing but respect for having the dedication to be able to do that. I’m loving the new direction but can’t help but feel bad for 3D Marian as she’ll forever look on longingly as her 2D counterpart gets all the attention.
Timothy Fitz wrote a Comment on February 14, 2011 at 9:30 am
Thanks for the the extremely thought filled post. I saw some of the 3d prototype at TIGJam 2009. Anything that comes from that core string mechanic and art style, 2d or 3d, will be fucking awesome. Can’t wait for you to show us more!
Rod wrote a Comment on February 14, 2011 at 10:03 am
That must have been hard. The new art looks fantastic, though!
Rob LaPoint wrote a Comment on February 14, 2011 at 10:14 am
As you are well aware ‘killing your baby’ is one the most difficult but ultimately important things you have to do (or in this case squishing your baby into another dimension!) Its always sad when it happens but like you said in the post and alluded to in your podcasts all the work put in so far is what will make the final product, there is no shorter path. The 3d stuff looked amazing but I have no doubt that the 2d version will be just as good, and better off for all the avenues you have already explored. Thanks for letting the community in on your process and good luck in the future!
Dock wrote a Comment on February 14, 2011 at 10:18 am
This was really interesting to read, and very open with the decision making. Often with indie work it’s the successes which are put forwards, which can lead to one forgetting that ‘killing your darlings’ is often the right thing to do. The new direction looks very strong. I wish larger devs could be franker about which stuff they’ve thrown away, especially having seen and been involved in interesting stuff now left to squander on hard-drives. Marian is dead, long live Marian!
David McGraw wrote a Comment on February 14, 2011 at 10:30 am
Fantastic insight! Talk about an incredibly tough decision! I feel some crazy wrathe s
David McGraw wrote a Comment on February 14, 2011 at 10:43 am
Ack! Premature submission.
Anyway. I feel some crazy wrath when simply telling one team member that what they made wont work (for now). Can’t imagine having to tell a decent sized team. That had to have been an interesting discussion.
The new direction looks pretty sweet (overall, I just love 2D), but I’ll miss that 3D feel. It definitely had a sweet aura.
Nathan wrote a Comment on February 14, 2011 at 10:44 am
Great read, thanks for taking the time to type all this up. I find it fascinating to learn more about other people’s development process and decision making. The Unity3D physics-based platformers that I’ve played have always felt “floaty”… I think that 2D is the way to go! Looking forward to playing the end result =]
Seraph wrote a Comment on February 14, 2011 at 11:18 am
Marian looks beautiful. Dreams are mischievous things, but worthy of the chase.
Sandy wrote a Comment on February 14, 2011 at 11:22 am
Wow, one of the hardest things I do is throw away work I’ve already done, that’s a gutsy move. I’m sure it’s the right one, but still…
I know there are things 3D can do that 2D can’t, but I still feel that there’s a certain magic that 2D gets and 3D doesn’t… I think it’s that you see that artist’s talent a little less filtered by the technology, and a little more direct.
xiagan wrote a Comment on February 14, 2011 at 11:34 am
I support that decision.
You’re one of the few I would trust with making a 3D game I like, but my heart beats for 2D games.
Jasper wrote a Comment on February 14, 2011 at 1:05 pm
Wonderful, inspiring post. I really feel like you’ve made the right choice – you set a high bar with your 3D work, which perhaps might have been too high for a small team to achieve.
I’m totally in love with this project now I’ve finally got to see a little more from these shots – both the 3D and 2D versions are beautiful, but I’m actually veering towards the 2D as my fave.
Good luck with the project, I’m sure it’ll turn out great.
Matt Rix wrote a Comment on February 14, 2011 at 1:09 pm
Just wanted to say that the game looks great. I think you made the right decision.
I also wanted to mention that the music is absolutely fantastic. Some of the Marian stuff, like the song you put in this post, has a really cool Jeremy Soule-ish vibe, which is awesome.
Jake C wrote a Comment on February 14, 2011 at 1:14 pm
Marian is your baby, your vision. Though I think I speak for many people when I say it’s a shame that some truly beautiful work was benched, in the end, the game will thrive because of these heavy decisions.
That being said, I feel fortunate having seen what Marian once was, and look forward to seeing more of what it will soon be. Break a leg Alec and Ashley.
Stephen wrote a Comment on February 14, 2011 at 1:24 pm
I love reading all these sorts of post. Its cool to see how invested you are in the project and how much you are putting into it, its one of the reasons I prefer independent games, the developers tend to be more transparent during the development.
Im sure you’ve made the right call in putting the game in 2D instead, do whatever you need to, to make the game work. I can’t wait to see how it turns out.
God at play wrote a Comment on February 14, 2011 at 2:02 pm
I really resonate with this post, thank you. For a couple months I’ve been working on a fully 3D scene and have had some troubles as well.
Overall, it just completely amazes me how much awe and wonder is in concept art, and one of my goals in life is to have an R&D team that spend their entire day trying to figure out how to get that same kind of awe and wonder into a real-time game, including a fully 3D one. So I can imagine your vague feeling about it not being right. I suppose it just didn’t have that same magic that the concept art did.
I would like to provide a critique, which is that the 2D Marian sprite looks more unfinished than the 3D model right now. Maybe it’s her eyes, but I guess I’m really not sure quite yet. She doesn’t look quite as soft and serene in terms of facial proportions (and body proportions, but I could see her needing to be squattier for gameplay). I’m sure the content will be reworked several times before the end, but I just thought I’d throw in my 2 cents.
I’m really excited to see more environment shots, though, can’t wait for progress reports, hope things go well for you guys.
Adriana wrote a Comment on February 14, 2011 at 3:00 pm
Making decisions is always a solitary path. No matter how big is a team, it’s all about you and your decision, at the end. The beauty in all of this experience is that you realized that a core idea still can be alive if you want to deal with it. It’s inspiring to see that you’ve been going through this creative game process trying to get to the original and unique game idea.
Mikko piironen wrote a Comment on February 14, 2011 at 4:02 pm
did everyone else in your team already want the change before you even considered it or did just come as a open suggestion one day and everyone agreed on it?., but i do really like the hard outlined marian sprite (reminds of naija)
Valzi wrote a Comment on February 14, 2011 at 5:28 pm
Both version are so beautiful. It’s kind of saddening that either has to die.
Adam wrote a Comment on February 14, 2011 at 7:28 pm
Thanks for sharing how the development has been going, Alec. I’m excited to see the new direction and I think it will be a great way to tell the story. I think you give me more credit than I am due, but I feel honored to have at least helped in some way, even if it was to explore a possibility that turned out to not be the best fit. I’m glad to see you’re still going strong, and I’m excited to see how things go from here!
Christian Knudsen wrote a Comment on February 15, 2011 at 6:59 am
I can’t imagine what it must be like to scratch a year’s worth of work like that. I’m not sure I’d be able to do it — at least not to continue on the same project. On the other hand, it seems like it’s really been getting you down. At least, that’s the impression you get from the podcasts, so I guess scratching everything and starting pretty much over must also be a breath of fresh air.
Trojanpooh wrote a Comment on February 15, 2011 at 10:12 am
It looked great before, but its looking even greater now. 3D models are good for somethings, but there’s nothing like carefully crafted 2D sprites. I love that I’m catching a tiny Aquaria vibe from the art, but at the same time its very different and unique.
I can’t wait, if Aquaria is anything to go by Marian is going to be anywhere between very good and phenomenal!
Le marionette di Marian abbandonano il 3D – Indie Vault wrote a Pingback on February 15, 2011 at 2:14 pm
[...] martedì, 15 febbraio 2011 di Vincenzo Lettera Commenti Con un lungo ed esplicativo intervento sul blog di Infinite Ammo, Alec Holowka ha rivelato un inaspettato cambio di rotta nello sviluppo di Marian, il primo grosso [...]
Linearity wrote a Comment on February 15, 2011 at 11:40 pm
You’re my hero, Alec. Holy shit, keep on truckin’. I’m really excited to play this.
Raymond Arnold wrote a Comment on February 16, 2011 at 11:30 am
This was a great article. I struggled with very similar things with my own game – the 3D vs 2D, the poor control of physics objects and the overall art style. I was lucky enough to figure this out after three months of work and only had to update the art assets, but even that was difficult. I can only imagine what it’d be like to go through all that. I’m sure it’ll be worth it though.
Colm wrote a Comment on February 16, 2011 at 12:31 pm
Interesting read! Can’t be easy dumping all that work & restarting. Hope things work out well!
Evan Balster wrote a Comment on February 16, 2011 at 5:18 pm
Good luck, to both of you. Aquaria is one of my favorite games, and I’d love to have ten more like it.
Make it great.
Alexei wrote a Comment on February 16, 2011 at 6:49 pm
So excited to see the game move forward! I’ve been tracking this project for years, and I have faith in your decision. So many studios get so caught up in sunk costs that they’ll consign a project to go out in the world crappy and gross. Thank you for doing the right thing and making Marian the game it could be, rather than the game that it would be if you’d cut corners.
–Alexei
A glimpse into a dream: Marian switches from 3D to 2D « BeefJack - The Gamer's Sauce wrote a Pingback on February 16, 2011 at 7:43 pm
[...] mermaid simulator Aquaria, has a written a beautifully illustrated and somewhat heart-wrenching blog post on the some difficult decisions he’s had to make during the development of his follow-up [...]
Pat LaBine wrote a Comment on February 16, 2011 at 7:59 pm
Great article, Alec! Gut wrenching having to make a call like that. Will this 2D incarnation still be using Unity?
JacaByte wrote a Comment on February 16, 2011 at 9:40 pm
I love where this project is headed. Can’t wait for something that is fleshed out like, say, a beta.
The 2D version is an improvement on the 3D version, by far; I agree that the 3D version lacks some of the magic that the concept art has, which the 2D version retains largely. I cannot help but notice that 2D Marian looks a lot like Naija. Hmm. Distant cousins, perhaps?
egasimus wrote a Comment on February 16, 2011 at 11:50 pm
really, the shape of her face needs reconsideration in both the 3d model and the 2d sprite. the concept art at the top of this page is beautiful.
Bookmarks for February 17th from 00:59 to 09:51 | Sulka's Game wrote a Pingback on February 17, 2011 at 2:02 am
[...] Infinite Ammo » Blog Archive » Marian: From 3D to 2D – I'm proud of Alec. There is a big meme left over from the days of console dominance that 3D is better than 2D…that once you've had your childish fun making 2D games, you will one day be allowed to make real professional 3D games. But this meme if bunk. [...]
Vinicius Bruno wrote a Comment on February 17, 2011 at 4:17 am
Hi there, as you say above, you will convert your project to C#. I think this can be a good tool for you, http://u3d.as/content/m2h/js-to-c-script-converter/1tH
Is a new tool for Unity
Good lucky.
qubodup wrote a Comment on February 17, 2011 at 10:58 am
This is the open development thing you always wanted to do as mentioned in previous podcast, right?
Kreender wrote a Comment on February 17, 2011 at 11:33 am
I think Marian looked absolutely beautiful in 3d but is more important that you as father of this project feels comfortable with it. I wish you the best and I hope the game really rocks!.
It would be really cool if you releases like a demo or very small potion of what Marian in 3d was.
jackal27 wrote a Comment on February 17, 2011 at 2:51 pm
You made the right decision. I wasn’t feeling the 3D from the beginning and the new 2D art looks fantastic. You’re doing a great job.
Qwilderwibben wrote a Comment on February 17, 2011 at 7:53 pm
AWESOME article. Loved it.
GreenGestalt wrote a Comment on February 19, 2011 at 1:33 am
Alec,
I’m sorry you went through such personal agony…
Right from the start I wanted Marian to be 2D like Aquaria, perhaps getting more advanced graphics and more textured sprites. But I didn’t want to try to dictate how you will do your work. You also gave me some good advice and I’m having fun with that game engine you advised for my simpler projects.
Frankly, too much 3D is done wrong. It was pushed too fast, too soon, and we don’t see 3D in RL so even if we went that vibrating screen/dorky glasses route it’d still give most (non glasses wearers) a headache.
But, with far better graphics capability and memory, computers can now work out 2d in ways barely dreamable to decades where the initial computer games were made. For instance, there’s a 3D “Dragon’s Lair” for the GameCube which while not the best of 3D games fulfills a dream of decades past of making a non linear/path “Dragon’s Lair” something beyond, beyond beyond impossible when the first (and most awesome) game was made. What I like about it is that they worked out the 3D engine to render as if it was a 2D toon!
The 2D fully using modern computers is an avenue not well explored. The game company Vanillaware does it good, “Princess Crown”, “Odin Sphere”, “Muramasa”… But I think with the art, your story, your fantastic music it can be as good or better than any of their works they spent a lot more $ and man-hours on…
So, I’m amazed and frankly relieved that you are going 2D. IMO, you should try to re-create the haunting beauty of the two primary paintings, the first one for the ad, the second one showing her staring out from the mansion. Make it look like living watercolor.
And, as before and now I’ll donate a little $ and spread the word and be right there to buy the thing when it comes out.
P.S. Have you considered porting “Aquaria” to the Wii/Xbox Live/PS3 online market? These game engines seem to advertise at the pro level you can output them to run on these systems… That might be a good way to get them to new customers and earn some more $ to help fund the development…
It’d be awesome if it could enter those markets as a $10-$20 (depending on the company’s cut) game. That game transcends most others on the market. It’s not “Dirty” in any way save a kiss but it’s very romantic. It’s not half as violent nor a fraction as gory as most kids watch and laugh at (like SAW…) but it’s gripping and intense. And while on the surface it’s a game about exploring and wonder, it’d sneak through deeper-almost Gnostic messages… You could add an ‘easter egg’ where it’s a semi animated, part scenes from game music video with the “Fear the Dark” theme song!
Kevbo wrote a Comment on February 20, 2011 at 12:48 am
Great article, thanks for your insight into your development process. As you mentioned all the tough decisions and learning experiences will feed into the new game. 2 other things I wanted to bring up:
1. That music you sampled here (Traveling) is fantastic, really like the variety throughout the song!
2. Sorry this isn’t a good place to bring this up but just wanted to say I really loved Aquaria and think it is one of the best indie games I have ever played.
Keep up the great work and stay focused on your vision.
Hard Decisions in Design « The Singularity wrote a Pingback on February 20, 2011 at 11:08 am
[...] Marian: From 3D to 2D by Alec Holowka (InfiniteAmmo.ca) [...]
FellaDudeMan wrote a Comment on February 20, 2011 at 10:01 pm
I took my time going through some of the later podcasts. Props on keeping those going. The Derek interview was a delight!
–
It’s good to see some of the work that went with the challenges you talked about on the podcasts. Gosh, I hope you aren’t completely ditching some use of 3D though. It was kind of exciting to imagine what sorts of cool things you had planned, handling 3D space from a purely 2D mentality. There’s a great sense of scale in those 3D shots you posted, that will be tricky to replace. I guess we’ll see what happens!
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On that note, hopefully you’ve been archiving your notes regarding 2D and 3D development. When Marian’s done, you could probably give some great talks to the masses about the practical applications of the two styles, and their limitations. Some of these kids are still stuck in this idea that 2D gaming is just a “retro circle-jerk,” and that a good time investment in 3D will always be stronger creatively (y’know, the new 3DS Cave Story is hitting pretty close to home on this topic). The more people realize that 3D isn’t the perfect answer to all gaming and game development challenges, the better future games will become.
–
Good work so far! Good luck!
Gutter wrote a Comment on February 20, 2011 at 10:58 pm
Hmm… I look at your 3D work and wonder if there is a way to salvage them, because I know such work need not go to waste. There is still so much potential there beyond use for game play. Such could be incorporated into perhaps an animation of sorts, similar to how video games during the mid/late 90′s would incorporate FMV cut scenes in illustrating the grandeur of plot moments (I’m referring mostly to Squaresoft RPGs of the time). It could even be used for a stand-alone, theatrical piece in deepening the story.
I do understand, though. It took all that progress to realize that the game’s, Marian’s, soul belonged in 2D. Your sacrifice is heavy. I only hope that this sacrifice, too, can be renewed as has your resolve for game’s design. In any case, I look forward witnessing what becomes of Marian.
Ryan wrote a Comment on February 22, 2011 at 5:34 pm
Very nice work, must of been a tough decision but looks like it’s turning out great. Did implementing the marionette strings give you much trouble?
Moka wrote a Comment on February 24, 2011 at 12:52 pm
It really must have been a hard decision for you and all your team but I can’t help but feel soooo happy about it. When I see the 3D pictures, I think they’re really beautiful ; when I look at the 2D one, it moves me. Can’t really explain why but 2D is always what will make my heart beat.
Your text, and the music are really beautiful and emotionally driving, and I’m sure your game will be as well, thank you for sharing this! I’m really looking forward to know more about Marian!
jack kane wrote a Comment on February 28, 2011 at 1:48 am
I think you made the right decision with switching back to 2d. I’ve been looking into independent game development for the last 6 months. I get the impression that a 3d title requires a large team because of the content. Getting the models and the shaders and the backgrounds and the lighting and the rest of it to look right takes too much time. There are no shortcuts (even Unity is not enough). Nowadays you can’t do serious (i.e. beyond Minecraft’s or Quake’s) 3D without a team of artists.
2d with sprites, on the other hand, is doable even by a lone person, and can look gorgeous. ‘Out of This World / Another World’ and ‘Loom’ are good examples – and those are from 20 years ago. Today we have powerful GPUs and drawing software. Plus you guys have the experience from Aquaria (which was a fine looking game). 2d is doable, and probably the optimal route for a small development studio.
Good luck. I find your gambit inspirational. Aquaria was good, and I think you guys haven’t hit your prime yet. I expect even better games from you in the future!
God at play – spiritual games » The Importance of Game Engine Authorship, Part 2 wrote a Pingback on March 2, 2011 at 1:15 am
[...] many times polygonal 3D graphics just doesn’t seem to have as much character as 2D graphics (it appears I’m not alone in my opinion). An irritation has been rattling around inside my head for the last couple years…concept art [...]
Na wrote a Comment on March 3, 2011 at 2:52 am
If I wasn’t planning on buying the game before (and I was), I certainly am now! The artwork and music are absolutely gorgeous!
Being a puppet maker myself, I kind of cringe at the overuse of the marionette as the sole representative of puppetry; but the use of the strings as gameplay is a very interesting one. (Especially as it reminds of a great puppet film that came out several years ago, entitled ‘Strings’, where the strings are literally the life-force of the puppet)
Whilst I like the new 2D artwork, I think I prefer the atmosphere and lighting of the 3D. However, if Marian is anything like Aquaria, then I won’t care because it’ll be awesome either way.
On a personal note, I always find that if something just isn’t working, it’s better to start over with a fresh take than try to hammer it home.
Tarwin wrote a Comment on March 28, 2011 at 4:24 am
3D is hard. Really hard. Of course you get the 3rd dimension for free then, if you want to turn the character you can just turn it, and if you want to move an arm you just move it. But on the other hand you can’t cheat like you can in 2D.
I think this is on one hand the medium, but on another simply because the player’s expectations are different.
It’s worrying that a lot of indies are going to try and start to compete in the 3D arena, with Unity (and now Flash) in the 3D fray it may just lead to many more disasters such as Flash Bang. I really love what they created but there was no way they could compete creating polished 3D worlds for mini games when put up against two day wack together “home job” that would get as many plays.
So glad you made this choice, or were able to make this choice, and are continuing. Good luck!
Tarwin wrote a Comment on March 28, 2011 at 4:28 am
Sorry about the double post, one more quick thing to add.
A game I worked on, Scarygirl, was a “simple” 2D Flash game. This let the art speak for itself and I’m sure let us concentrate on the gameplay a little more. There’s a new 3D game coming out (http://tomopop.com/nathan-jurevicius-scarygirl-game-is-coming-to-the-360-and-ps3-15912.phtml) and I feel sorry for the team who has to compete trying to produce the same in 3D, it’s just that much harder! So yeah, you made the right choice!
Angela wrote a Comment on April 2, 2011 at 6:26 pm
I agree with Gutter. Perhaps we can see the 3D in an animation or play the 3D parts in a mod in the 2D game?
Peter wrote a Comment on May 1, 2011 at 11:55 pm
I’m actually quite happy you went with 2D instead of 3D. The reasons Aquaria was so amazing is because of the detailed artwork and I believe in 3D a lot of it would have gotten lost as you don’t have sufficient resources to create all the textures and not a good enough engine to really create an immerse world. Unity has its limitations..
john g wrote a Comment on October 28, 2011 at 12:23 am
Wow, this game looks like it’s going to be fantastic!
It’s amazing to see that you have gone through such a large change, but are still going to stick it out and bring the game to the end! I certainly cannot wait until I get to play this game. You being so hush-hush about the story is getting me ultra excited!
Take care, and I hope to see this game soon!